The Only Sunshine In My Life Right Now…
…is this burger!!!
Rain, rain, go away…as Tina Fey would say, for realsies!!!
Lunch also included some orange segments and a Mrs. May’s cashew crunch square—yum! I’ll post some pics + a review of this product soon.
Hey guys! Despite the rain, we’ve had a productive morning over here. I listened to a Vegan Freak podcast as I did some grading for my online classes.
This podcast is put out by Bob and Jenna Torres, authors of Vegan Freak: Being Vegan in a Non-Vegan World. They describe themselves as “two long-time vegans who like to use our skills and talents to provide vegans and aspiring vegans with support, community, and entertainment.”
I’ve listened to a few of their podcasts in the past, and have really gotten to love their sarcastic senses of humor and witty banter.
But…today I felt a little conflicted as I listened to the podcast. It was entitled “Veganism 101,” and started out with some good advice about doing your research, making sure you get the proper nutrition, etc.
But then Bob moved into what I would describe a bit of a rant about vegetarians, saying:
“Here’s the issue…being a vegetarian doesn’t do a whole lot for animal rights. It’s a notion…about animal production that’s based on a model of animal husbandry that has not been common since the early 1900’s, because up until that point, it was possible to have cows on a farm that were producing milk and not killed. But now…it’s not.
The profitability of the dairy industry demands that as soon as an animal becomes less productive, as soon as they become to expensive to maintain, the animal is sent to slaughter.
On top of that, cows are kept pregnant to produce milk, and what do you think happens to half of the babies that are not female? Do you see many bulls around?
So, this is what you’re looking at: drinking milk creates a cycle where animals are being killed prematurely…
So that’s why milk is a troubling product to consume if you’re concerned about animals rights—milk, cheese, all that crap…”
He went on to talk about the cruelty of the egg industry, and finally wrapped up the subject by saying,
“If you care about the rights of animals, you can’t possibly consume products that they’re producing…and claim to be an animal rights activist. It’s absurdity. So if you’re a vegetarian…I’m sorry, I can’t give you a lot of credit for that. It’s not even halfway.”
Wow.
This podcast was, as you can imagine, hard for me to listen to. One of my favorite quotes is one I heard on a Colleen Patrick-Goudreau podcast: “Don’t do nothing because you cannot do everything.” While I openly admit that being a vegetarian is by no means “doing everything,” is it really worth, as Torres seems to believe, almost nothing?
Because I occasionally eat cheese and eggs, does that really take away from the validity of my desire for animal rights and stopping animal cruelty? I’ve always been a fan of shades of gray, but clearly Torres views this as a black and white issue.
What about you?
I’m still not sure where I stand on the whole vegan vs. vegetarian issue, and it’s something I’ll definitely ponder in my Vegan challenge wrap-up post, but for the time being, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this issue, whether you’re vegan, vegetarian, or a meat-eater!
Okay…I’m off to (hopefully) perfect those oatmeal balls! Be back tonight with a recap and dinner!
What kind of camera do you use? Lately your pics have been rocking!
It’s a Nikon 5000…a Christmas gift! I love it!
It is so dreary and miserable here, too!! Boo.
I think it’s gross EVERYWHERE
First of all, I love Sunshine burgers!
Secondly, about vegetarians vs. vegans. I’ve been a vegetarian for nearly ten years, and a vegan on and off during that time – most recently for the last year and a half solid (yay me!). As far as animal rights goes, I do think veganism is “doing more” than simply vegetarianism, but I don’t knock vegetarianism in the slightest! Being vegan is a omnivore world is no easy feat (especially when you live in Texas, like I do). Some people are comfortable making the leap, others aren’t. Some people have obstacles in their lives (location, money, education, time, health) that prevent them from being vegan. I respect that. It took me years to finally, successfully make the leap to veganism. Lastly, it’s impossible to be 100% vegan. When it comes down to it, we’re all basically doing the best we can.
Thanks for letting me rant on your blog! Looking forward to reading more.
“When it comes down to it, we’re all basically doing the best we can.”– AMEN, sista!!
You and I are on the same wave length
That’s awesome that you’ve been able to make the transition to vegan!
Hi! I clicked over from Caitlin’s blog. I think the vegan vs. vegetarian is an interesting discussion. I definitely see things in shades of grey. I do eat meat, but over the years I have gone from eating meat (and lots of it red) at both lunch and dinner to only eating white meat or fish at most once a day. (I will have red meat if I really want it when I am eating out, but I almost always opt for fowl or fish in restaurants anyway because that’s what I like.) I do think that I am helping animals and the environment (as well as my health) by eating significantly less meat. I don’t think that it is a meaningless act. I anticipate that over the years, I will continue to eat less meat (someone sent me and my fiance Omaha steak hamburgers for Christmas and they don’t even register in my mind as food) but I think that it is a very gradual process.
Wow, I’m not sure I could have sat there and listened to that whole rant, b/c that’s sort of what it sounds like. So either be vegan or eat meat? Seriously??? People are vegetarian for various reasons as well. I’m with you on the gray areas. When people are so black and white on issues, I think it is a huge turn off. No wonder there is such a stigma attached to vegan and vegetarian.
aww sending LOTS of sunshine your way girl!! it was wayy rainy here today..now its sunny! but VERY windy. atleast u got your sunshine burger
This is sort of difficult for me because I’m not a vegetarian for animal rights reasons. I think humans are meant to eat meat. I simply choose not to for a whole array of reasons; animal rights isn’t on the top of that list (sure it’s on there but it’s not my main concern). I’m sure that doesn’t please many people but it’s the truth.
I agree with the previous post, we all have to do what we can. I’m a drop in a bucket, I understand that, but change has to start somewhere.
Something is better than nothing.
It’s been raining here too! Hopefully it will clear up soon!
I have been meaning to cut back on dairy, but I since I’ve been training for a mary my body is only satisfied with more protein and tofu and beans can get old. Very good points though
Great quote about how you shouldn’t do NOTHING just because you can’t do EVERYTHING. Does your not eating meat have a less positive effect just because you sometimes consume eggs and dairy? Of course not. Plus, he ignores the fact that going vegetarian is a HUGE leap for most people and should be commended.
Woah, simmer down, Bob! I’ve been hoping you would touch on this, Anna. I’m with Karla — I think humans were meant to eat meat. (Side note: My husband told me that I must have been born to eat more veggies than him, because I had the teeth of a bronchiosaurus, while he had sharp incisors.) Anyway! I also believe that goats and cows were meant to yield milk, and we figured out how to make something of it. Go humans.
I also take issue with his narrow-sighteness on this point: Try being a vegan on an annual salary of $25,000. Now try it with two kids and $40,000 salary. I don’t think you can consciously condemn people who cannot afford meat-alternatives on a regular basis.
And Bob, you attract more bees with honey.
I can see the point that vegetarians/vegans don’t solve the WHOLE problem, but that doesn’t mean they don’t make a dent in it! I mean, just think about…every time someone asks you about being a vegetarian or not eating meat or anything related, your spreading knowledge, awareness, and a different point of view. That’s where change starts! (And there’s no way you can really compare whether vegetarians help because you can just tell everyone to start eating meat for awhile and see what happens to the animal population…..)
Every little bit counts! Think about it: if you are someone who goes from eating chicken or meat at both lunch and dinner to a vegetarian – you ARE making a difference. You will still save hundreds, if not thousands of animals’ lives every single year and feel better in the process. I think a lot of so-called “activists” really go overboard a lot of the time. Plus, just because you drink milk or eat eggs occasionally doesn’t mean you have to go for the conventional, battery-cage variety. This probobly sounds really idealistic, but I have a friend whos uncle owns an organic farm and she is happy to sell me eggs from his hens. They are kept outside at all times (except at night and in the cold) and are not forced to lay more eggs than they naturally would. Do they cost a lot more? Well, yes, but I believe they are worth it. Same goes for organic dairy products. I’m sure anyone who did their research could find a local dairy farmer, and if not that, they could still feel a little better by purchasing from a reputable company like the Organic Valley Cooperative or Stoneyfield Farms. Like they say, every item we buy (or don’t buy) is a vote.
Even people who signifigantly cut back on their meat intake are doing a great (and still very difficult) thing. Don’t let someone’s black-and-white message get to you.
Hey girl…I think that in the end you are doing the best you can! I mean just because you are not a pure vegan doesn’t mean you are out inhaling burgers everyday either! I sometimes feel like people try to put us into boxes and there is no crossover. For the typical person that just isn’t reality. It is hard to fit yourself into one mold and one mold only! I applaud your animal-consious lifestyle and that opinion doesn’t change when you eat eggs or cheese.
It’s not all or nothing. Even just a reduction in dairy consumption is good. And imagine what an impact it would have on the meat industry if everyone did the ‘meatless Monday’ thing.
Small steps
The weather really was miserable today, wasn’t it?
I wouldn’t listen to this nutbucket vegan if I were you. Yeah, there’s a lot of terrible, terrible things in the food production industry. But you should see some of the dairy farms in our area (agriculture is one of my beats). Most aren’t certified organic or anything like that, but they are working farms where the animals are treated well. You can definitely feel confident buying Ritchey’s.
Wowzers, those were some harsh words. I don’t know what I would say to that. I mean, I’m not a vegetarian or a vegan, but I do care about animals and I do think our food industry has gotten way out of hand, but boy do I NOT want to hear what he says about someone like me! Clearly he would think I don’t really care about animals…but to be honest, my diet is already restrictive enough as it is! We can’t all be “perfect” like him…plllllease!
I think whatever you can do to cut your animal product usage is good enough. Becoming a vegetarian is a step up from not being a vegetarian, so if that’s all you feel like doing, so be it. I wouldn’t let yourself get caught up in that, and I know you won’t.
Your “burger” looks awesome…I love me some pickles! I agree with you on this post. I try to limit my dairy consumption, but cutting out meat altogether is better than nothing! I’ll enjoy my dairy in moderation, even though I respect people who cut it out altogether!
I think that every little bit we do helps! I have been veg for 12 years so I like to think that I have taken some part in saving some animals. Sure I still eat dairy and eggs but I am doing my part! I don’t think it’s right to say that being vegetarian isn’t do anything for animal rights, are these people nuts?!
I think it’s crap that he considers being a vegetarian to be almost pointless because it’s not. You ARE saving animals lives and you ARE making a difference. Every little bit helps. Now, I do not like the dairy industry at all as I visited a dairy farm while on a field trip and it made me extraordinarily sad, BUT, I do truly believe that going vegetarian and at least cutting out meat is doing good.
As for eggs, if they’re from chickens that are treated kindly then to be honest, I think it is fine to eat them. I personally wouldn’t as they don’t appeal to me but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with eating eggs that are from chickens treated humanely.
I could never be so… well, black and white, as you put it.
I think where I do see a valid point in it, though, is that at least some vegetarians (at least that I’ve met/talked to) think that consuming dairy products does not contribute to any sort of harm to animals. It does, and when you get into the organic/free-range debate, there’s the reality that there is just not enough land for all Americans to eat that way even if it is better than conventionally raised dairy cows/chickens.
However, even though I think that (and come more from the environmental impact side of veganism anyway), I wouldn’t say that being vegetarian isn’t helpful to animal rights. I can definitely see how that podcast could come off as harsh though!
I think your thoughts on this issue and particularly the quote you cited — “don’t do nothing bc you can’t do everything” — can and should translate to ALL (positive) aspects of our lives. And, as Emily noted, this can be great encouragement to those whose means don’t afford us to do everything. Unfortunately, if we extended the podcasters do-good logic to the “real world,” nothing (good) would ever be accomplished, bc those who could not do everything or go all the way would be thwarted. Some seemingly obvious (maybe even silly) examples / questions: Should (the royal) we forego running bc we can’t do a marathon? Recycling bc we use plastic bags for pups’ potties? If we can’t donate our entire salary to charity then none at all? Do we take in no lost/neglected/abandoned animals bc we can’t rescue them all? As much as we might like to do and be everything for all people and causes we love, sometimes we can’t. So, we eat healthfully and mindfully; exercise our bodies, minds, and souls; and give what we can (maybe more so we “feel” it) when we can. And we try every day to do a little bit more and to be a little bit better. So, that eventually we will be our best selves.
Thanks so much for bringing up this topic . . . even if I did kind of take yr point and run with it. It is much delicious food for thought
That is such a frustrating attitude for the podcasters to have. If everyone adopted an all or nothing mentality, it seems to me that most would choose nothing, as all involves quite the lifestyle change for the average American. I believe that any little thing that a person can do to change their habits is a step in the right direction.
Thanks for posting about this, it was really helpful to read your insights and everyone’s responses. As a 4 year vegetarian teetering on the brink of vegan, it is an issue I have been battling. I quit meat for nutritional reasons, but I have become more and more concerned with the animal rights aspects of it in recent years.
For now, the battle continues!
I actually starting reading their book but never finished it because of their attitude.
Like everyone else is saying, being vegetarian does HELP and being vegan just helps a little bit more. In the long run, we are all just trying to make a small difference. It is no ones place to judge one another. What if I said people who only practive yoga DO NOTHING for their health since they don’t run? Or people who recycle but drive an SUV are doing NOTHING for the environment? It’s never all or nothing.
A lot of vegans probably have that attitude, but a lot probably don’t!